Quad War 2010 - IANAL

[jamesq]

I alluded to there being some theft at the event, thinking on what to do about that opened a small can of worms and I wanted to sound off about them here. Note, I won't be describing individual incidents as that's inflammatory.

Let's say we have proof of a crime at an event, what exactly do we do? My first thought is that we should treat it exactly the same way we do in the modern world. After all, the society is not parallel and separate from the modern world, it's merely a hobby (a very important and intense hobby to some, but still a hobby in the eyes of the law). If someone is a victim of assault (sexual or otherwise), that is not a job for the autocrat, or the seneschal, or the highest ranking royal - it's a job for the cops. People who claim otherwise - especially in a let's deal with this ourselves so we don't hurt the society's image way, need to give their priorities a shake.

So yeah, if you're the victim and someone tries to talk you into keeping it in the family, think good and hard about it before acquiescing. Peer pressure is not a good enough reason to waive your rights.

Of course, there are some things that should probably be ignored, and I think how you dealt with them in the real world is a good gauge for how to deal with them at an event. If my car gets broken into at the mall, I'm going to report it. If my car gets broken into in the middle of a field at Quad War, I'm going to report it. Conversely, if some kid swipes a beer from my cooler, I'm not talking to the cops, I'm talking to the kid's guardians. Even if the guardians are complete asshats, I'm probably still not going to go to the cops.

I'm actually reluctant to call the cops for anything - I blame Fark for this - too many stories of police abuse (I've seen some jerkass behavior by cops personally, thankfully never when I've been on the receiving end of a ticket though). But that's just me.

Would calling the cops to an event be more trouble then it's worth? How many illegal things do we turn a blind eye to at events?

Do the merchants have business licenses? I suppose you could argue that an SCA merchant is like the vendors at a craft fair - too small to warrant one and covered by existing laws. For example, I don't need a business license to hold a yard sale - but at what point do I cross the line from that to a real business. I can think of two vendors at Quad War that were probably doing business in the $5k-$10k range. I depended on my meals from one of them - it would be rather inconvenient if I had to run into the local village for my meals. I doubt their one diner is up to the sudden influx of an additional 300 meals a day.

Are the food merchants following appropriate laws for handling food? I know that at the Estrella War a health code officer came by to check up on them. This was expected and prepared for. Are we prepared for something similar at Quad War?

Underage drinking? The SCA (or at least the people I know in the Society) seem to turn a blind eye to it - provided they know the guardians are OK with it. If we know they're not OK with it, the youths in question suddenly find everyone in their business. The village knows its own. Basically, if you're a "known" kid in the SCA, you've got several hundred Uncles and Aunts. Sometimes they're the cool Uncle, and sometimes they're not.

You can let your kids drink in your own home, can you do it at an SCA event. Does the event count as "public" for this? How about just your camp, especially when the boundaries of a camp are ill-defined. I was in mommaquilter's camp. Was I also in Baeldric's camp? They shared a fire.

There is an implicit acknowledgment that we keep underage people out of the Grotto (ostensibly because of the free-flow of free alcohol, but also because the Grotto is decidedly adult. I've seen some pretty kinky stuff go on in the Grotto. Identification is checked before you can enter (however, I didn't see that happen this year - possibly because I'm visibly old and decrepit). Does this implicit admission affect how underage drinking is perceived outside the Grotto? If the Grotto is private, does that make the rest of the site public?

How about weed? I've seen, or rather smelled, evidence that people have lit up at events. I don't think that should be reported (because I don't think it should be illegal in the first place), but others might disagree. Hell, some people are obligated to report anything illegal, regardless of their personal thoughts on the matter.

As an aside, I read somewhere recently that An Tir doesn't allow medical marijuana on sites. I'd be interested in knowing if that's illegal. I suspect restricting what kind of medicine people have isn't going to fly. OTOH, it's not like they've had much luck banning the non-medical kind. Hell, half the camping events in BC probably have it growing on site.

The potential for visiting law enforcement to rack up a quota of tickets is, I suspect, very high. The odds OTOH, really depend on whether the officer in question is a dick. I'm not the sort of person to assume someone isn't going to be a dick. However that shouldn't stop you from calling law enforcement in when you do need them. You have to look after yourself. Other people need to be responsible for their own lawfulness. Don't assume that just because you're at an event, you can't be busted for possession.

Anyway, just some unorganized pondering. Feel free to add, debate, clarify with actual data.

Comments

[snooness2]

I know there used to be some cops that played in the society, though being off duty I'm not sure how they handled the obvious situations.

I suspect that AnTir's rule about MMJ will fly until someone with a legitimate script and enough money to afford court gets tossed out of an event.... and since, as you mentioned, the group seems to not have much luck with standard MJ - I'm not sure that the issue will come up for a long long while. Thankfully folks have been relatively decent in my case and not toked up in front of me, and I have rarely smelled the stuff at an event (---which could have something with a poor sense of smell too---). Since I've been pretty open that I don't want MJ around me at all - and the reasons why, I'm hoping that those who know also know not to be obvious about their use around me.

My personal opinion is that for what I consider a larger crime (sexual assaults etc) I definately think the cops should be involved. For something like theft of a beer - I'd go talk to the parents too. Occasionally it's more effective to deal with issues through the society, so I think it would have to be a personal decision for each person as to whether to go to the police or not.

There have been a fair number of events where the cops have shown up - if for no other reason to see what we are all doing.

[bow-bitch.livejournal.com]

Sexual assault is one of the most underreported crimes (and at a 3% success rate of conviction its no wonder) and domestic violence also is widely underreported. Speaking from my experiences on both sides of the issues the shame/embarrassment/lack of social support - especially in a male dominated society where status is literally won by 'honourable' combat make it damned tough on the victim to even report. Couple that with the already prevelant "blame the victim" mundane social pressure along with the 'village knows its own' and you're not going to see many victims step forward.

The only time I've seen universal support for a victim of sexual assault in the Society was when that victim was a child. Otherwise the victim has been already tried in the court of public opinion - what can I say, we love our gossip.

As for the medical marijuana issue - we are a US based society and until there are deep enough pockets to challenge any decisions made in court their rules will stand. There are a lot of SCAdianism which are not technically legal in Canada. Single language printing of the Kingdom Newsletter for the groups that live in Quebec for example.

[jamesq]

Well the social problems (circle the wagons and blame the victim) require education and time - it's the sort of thing for which no quick-fix exists. Sadly. As for US rulings adversely affecting Canadians, I'll just add it to my list of reasons why we need an SCA Canada.

[bow-bitch.livejournal.com]

I agree completely that education and time are the only real solutions to this - and its human nature to view whatever happend to 'that girl' or 'that guy' through the lens of your own experience/knowledge of that person - which sucks but its why so many of these situations don't go reported. I also agree the police should be called.

As for the SCA Canada - I also agree as well we need to have our own, affiliated Society.

For me, when I smell (what I think) is marijuana I turn a blind eye. Why? Because I never 'saw' the usage and reasonable doubt would suggest, quite rightly, that I was mistaken, the Charter would be invoked if the indulgence was within tent walls, new manditory minimum sentences make it a pain in the ass and as personal usage essentially a victim-less 'crime' the reporting of the 'smell' is not worth the burden on the system let alone the personal cost to the individual indulging in their private habit.

[jamesq]

"I thought it was a skunk"

[bow-bitch.livejournal.com]

Essentially yes - the police agencies lay the charge, the Crown can withdraw it based on their assessment of "no reasonable liklihood of successful conviction" - so my quick'n dirty assessment of shakey witnesses, charter issues and enough reasonable doubt to drive a truck through is enough to just keep on walking. And I would bet most police officers (who are underfunded, understaffed in rural areas) would too. Rules from on high are great - but on the front line implimentation doesn't always flow quite the way the rule-makers envisioned things playing out.

[jamesq]

And let me just add:

3% Conviction rate!?!? Sweet baby Jeebus! Does it have to caught on film? Do you need three male witnesses? FUCK!

[snooness2]

Pretty much - yes. And if caught on film, she better be screaming at the top of her lungs "NO" because if she's to scared to make any noise then she must of somehow consented. It all boils down to -
"because she was asking for it, don't ya know"
(For the record: coming from me this is a line dripping with sarcasm.)

I can't adequetly express how angry our laws around domestic violence and sexual assult make me.

[jamesq]

I'm reminded of the girl who lost her lawsuit against the "Girls Gone Wild" producers for airing video of her boobs being flashed. The videotape showed her having her top pulled up by someone else while she cried "no". The jury decided that because she knew the cameras were rolling and she went on the dance floor anyway, that meant she had consented.

So yeah, I guess "no means no" doesn't matter anymore.

[jamesq]

"There have been a fair number of events where the cops have shown up"

I need to remind myself that this happens plenty and nothing bad has happened yet.

[ya-inga.livejournal.com]

"If someone is a victim of assault (sexual or otherwise), that is not a job for the autocrat, or the seneschal, or the highest ranking royal - it's a job for the cops. People who claim otherwise - especially in a let's deal with this ourselves so we don't hurt the society's image way, need to give their priorities a shake."

AMEN! This is one of my hugest pet peeves - like getting justice is less important than our "image" I have dealt with this more than once and actually witnessed a royal try to talk someone into not reporting an assault - disgusting.

As for the rumors of theft on merchants row at Quad - there was a young man who had been implying that if you didn't watch him he would help himself - now that isn't a crime itself but given that a few small items had gone missing it certainly was causing some distress among the merchants. A couple of the large knights chatted with him and explained how that is not how the SCA runs - that we operate on the honour system here and don't abuse that and that if there were any more complaints that the police would be called. By all accounts that stopped the issue.

The challenge is that it is rarely big stuff that gets stolen - mostly wee things - and to my mind that is a sign of little people with grabby hands. Not evil adults.

[jamesq]

"there was a young man who had been implying that if you didn't watch him he would help himself - now that isn't a crime itself but"

That's the sound of a kid rationalizing his actions. "It's OK because I gave them fair warning"

[ya-inga.livejournal.com]

YUP!

Zactly what I thought too.

[hislittlekitty.livejournal.com]

Probably good that H didn't overhear that young fellow.
As it was, our would-be-thief decided to take H's last warning and not come back an Nth time.

[snooness2]

For the record - those of us who've done construction out there have had things go missing - though not during the event itself.

But it's a rural site, and there comes a point where you know since there aren't folks around to police it, and you left it there for X months - so you pay your money, you take your chances.

[jamesq]

I've been on QW work parties too, I know the deal. Local kids are well aware of the existence of multiple buildings away from prying adult eyes.

Hell, we found a mattress, multiple bottles of cheap beer and condom wrappers. Hopefully it was consensual and didn't require three male witnesses.

Dante dubbed it "the fuckatorium".

Man, a filthy mattress on the ground in the castle - that just screams "romantic getaway" to me.

[snooness2]

Oh - Ick. Just ick.

[snooness2]

Actually the missing from our cabin was a number of sheets of plywood that we had left out there so we could come back and use it for walls. This was prior to our back door being put on.

It sucked and it cost us some - but it wasn't an entire surprise to me.

Now that we have a door and a lock the only stuff that seems to go missing are the tools that I put down somewhere...
:)

[danceintheabyss.livejournal.com]

And the sad thing is (having grown up in rural but fuck nowheres myself) That its just a few bad eggs that ruin the batch of kids. And a lot of the time its not even the locals but the 'cottagers' or the kids from the nearest large center (an hour or less is sufficient to make it an ideal 'out of the way' spot) that cause teh most damaging vandalism. Most local kids are just looking for a place away from the adults, the nonlocals are looking for things to break, steal, screw in.

[missymorgan1.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think people in the SCA should be VERY wary of using their SCA authority to keep things 'in the family'. That could be construed as intimidation, which is also - when applied in criminal circumstances - illegal. Pressure by a seneschal (still the legal rep of the SCA, last time I looked) could be seen as sanctioned BY the SCA. And the King? He is the thug/heavy here - looked at from the outside perspective, I mean. A big guy honoured for his ability to beat other folks up with a stick? Telling/Pressuring you NOT to tell the cops?

Would make a good Law and Order show though...