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Quad War 2010 - IANAL
Aug. 5th, 2010 06:22 pmI alluded to there being some theft at the event, thinking on what to do about that opened a small can of worms and I wanted to sound off about them here. Note, I won't be describing individual incidents as that's inflammatory.
Let's say we have proof of a crime at an event, what exactly do we do? My first thought is that we should treat it exactly the same way we do in the modern world. After all, the society is not parallel and separate from the modern world, it's merely a hobby (a very important and intense hobby to some, but still a hobby in the eyes of the law). If someone is a victim of assault (sexual or otherwise), that is not a job for the autocrat, or the seneschal, or the highest ranking royal - it's a job for the cops. People who claim otherwise - especially in a let's deal with this ourselves so we don't hurt the society's image way, need to give their priorities a shake.
So yeah, if you're the victim and someone tries to talk you into keeping it in the family, think good and hard about it before acquiescing. Peer pressure is not a good enough reason to waive your rights.
Of course, there are some things that should probably be ignored, and I think how you dealt with them in the real world is a good gauge for how to deal with them at an event. If my car gets broken into at the mall, I'm going to report it. If my car gets broken into in the middle of a field at Quad War, I'm going to report it. Conversely, if some kid swipes a beer from my cooler, I'm not talking to the cops, I'm talking to the kid's guardians. Even if the guardians are complete asshats, I'm probably still not going to go to the cops.
I'm actually reluctant to call the cops for anything - I blame Fark for this - too many stories of police abuse (I've seen some jerkass behavior by cops personally, thankfully never when I've been on the receiving end of a ticket though). But that's just me.
Would calling the cops to an event be more trouble then it's worth? How many illegal things do we turn a blind eye to at events?
Do the merchants have business licenses? I suppose you could argue that an SCA merchant is like the vendors at a craft fair - too small to warrant one and covered by existing laws. For example, I don't need a business license to hold a yard sale - but at what point do I cross the line from that to a real business. I can think of two vendors at Quad War that were probably doing business in the $5k-$10k range. I depended on my meals from one of them - it would be rather inconvenient if I had to run into the local village for my meals. I doubt their one diner is up to the sudden influx of an additional 300 meals a day.
Are the food merchants following appropriate laws for handling food? I know that at the Estrella War a health code officer came by to check up on them. This was expected and prepared for. Are we prepared for something similar at Quad War?
Underage drinking? The SCA (or at least the people I know in the Society) seem to turn a blind eye to it - provided they know the guardians are OK with it. If we know they're not OK with it, the youths in question suddenly find everyone in their business. The village knows its own. Basically, if you're a "known" kid in the SCA, you've got several hundred Uncles and Aunts. Sometimes they're the cool Uncle, and sometimes they're not.
You can let your kids drink in your own home, can you do it at an SCA event. Does the event count as "public" for this? How about just your camp, especially when the boundaries of a camp are ill-defined. I was in![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
mommaquilter's camp. Was I also in Baeldric's camp? They shared a fire.
There is an implicit acknowledgment that we keep underage people out of the Grotto (ostensibly because of the free-flow of free alcohol, but also because the Grotto is decidedly adult. I've seen some pretty kinky stuff go on in the Grotto. Identification is checked before you can enter (however, I didn't see that happen this year - possibly because I'm visibly old and decrepit). Does this implicit admission affect how underage drinking is perceived outside the Grotto? If the Grotto is private, does that make the rest of the site public?
How about weed? I've seen, or rather smelled, evidence that people have lit up at events. I don't think that should be reported (because I don't think it should be illegal in the first place), but others might disagree. Hell, some people are obligated to report anything illegal, regardless of their personal thoughts on the matter.
As an aside, I read somewhere recently that An Tir doesn't allow medical marijuana on sites. I'd be interested in knowing if that's illegal. I suspect restricting what kind of medicine people have isn't going to fly. OTOH, it's not like they've had much luck banning the non-medical kind. Hell, half the camping events in BC probably have it growing on site.
The potential for visiting law enforcement to rack up a quota of tickets is, I suspect, very high. The odds OTOH, really depend on whether the officer in question is a dick. I'm not the sort of person to assume someone isn't going to be a dick. However that shouldn't stop you from calling law enforcement in when you do need them. You have to look after yourself. Other people need to be responsible for their own lawfulness. Don't assume that just because you're at an event, you can't be busted for possession.
Anyway, just some unorganized pondering. Feel free to add, debate, clarify with actual data.
Let's say we have proof of a crime at an event, what exactly do we do? My first thought is that we should treat it exactly the same way we do in the modern world. After all, the society is not parallel and separate from the modern world, it's merely a hobby (a very important and intense hobby to some, but still a hobby in the eyes of the law). If someone is a victim of assault (sexual or otherwise), that is not a job for the autocrat, or the seneschal, or the highest ranking royal - it's a job for the cops. People who claim otherwise - especially in a let's deal with this ourselves so we don't hurt the society's image way, need to give their priorities a shake.
So yeah, if you're the victim and someone tries to talk you into keeping it in the family, think good and hard about it before acquiescing. Peer pressure is not a good enough reason to waive your rights.
Of course, there are some things that should probably be ignored, and I think how you dealt with them in the real world is a good gauge for how to deal with them at an event. If my car gets broken into at the mall, I'm going to report it. If my car gets broken into in the middle of a field at Quad War, I'm going to report it. Conversely, if some kid swipes a beer from my cooler, I'm not talking to the cops, I'm talking to the kid's guardians. Even if the guardians are complete asshats, I'm probably still not going to go to the cops.
I'm actually reluctant to call the cops for anything - I blame Fark for this - too many stories of police abuse (I've seen some jerkass behavior by cops personally, thankfully never when I've been on the receiving end of a ticket though). But that's just me.
Would calling the cops to an event be more trouble then it's worth? How many illegal things do we turn a blind eye to at events?
Do the merchants have business licenses? I suppose you could argue that an SCA merchant is like the vendors at a craft fair - too small to warrant one and covered by existing laws. For example, I don't need a business license to hold a yard sale - but at what point do I cross the line from that to a real business. I can think of two vendors at Quad War that were probably doing business in the $5k-$10k range. I depended on my meals from one of them - it would be rather inconvenient if I had to run into the local village for my meals. I doubt their one diner is up to the sudden influx of an additional 300 meals a day.
Are the food merchants following appropriate laws for handling food? I know that at the Estrella War a health code officer came by to check up on them. This was expected and prepared for. Are we prepared for something similar at Quad War?
Underage drinking? The SCA (or at least the people I know in the Society) seem to turn a blind eye to it - provided they know the guardians are OK with it. If we know they're not OK with it, the youths in question suddenly find everyone in their business. The village knows its own. Basically, if you're a "known" kid in the SCA, you've got several hundred Uncles and Aunts. Sometimes they're the cool Uncle, and sometimes they're not.
You can let your kids drink in your own home, can you do it at an SCA event. Does the event count as "public" for this? How about just your camp, especially when the boundaries of a camp are ill-defined. I was in
mommaquilter's camp. Was I also in Baeldric's camp? They shared a fire.There is an implicit acknowledgment that we keep underage people out of the Grotto (ostensibly because of the free-flow of free alcohol, but also because the Grotto is decidedly adult. I've seen some pretty kinky stuff go on in the Grotto. Identification is checked before you can enter (however, I didn't see that happen this year - possibly because I'm visibly old and decrepit). Does this implicit admission affect how underage drinking is perceived outside the Grotto? If the Grotto is private, does that make the rest of the site public?
How about weed? I've seen, or rather smelled, evidence that people have lit up at events. I don't think that should be reported (because I don't think it should be illegal in the first place), but others might disagree. Hell, some people are obligated to report anything illegal, regardless of their personal thoughts on the matter.
As an aside, I read somewhere recently that An Tir doesn't allow medical marijuana on sites. I'd be interested in knowing if that's illegal. I suspect restricting what kind of medicine people have isn't going to fly. OTOH, it's not like they've had much luck banning the non-medical kind. Hell, half the camping events in BC probably have it growing on site.
The potential for visiting law enforcement to rack up a quota of tickets is, I suspect, very high. The odds OTOH, really depend on whether the officer in question is a dick. I'm not the sort of person to assume someone isn't going to be a dick. However that shouldn't stop you from calling law enforcement in when you do need them. You have to look after yourself. Other people need to be responsible for their own lawfulness. Don't assume that just because you're at an event, you can't be busted for possession.
Anyway, just some unorganized pondering. Feel free to add, debate, clarify with actual data.
