I must have missed your point. If you never stop acting like a professional, what is it about being inconsiderate toward others that makes you less of an artist?
What is it about being inconsiderate that makes one an artist? Just because you have a talent for pissing people off, it doesn't mean you get to be an artist. It's like using the term to describe Yo-Yo Ma and le Pétomane both - to do so makes "artist" a meaningless distinction.
We have a pretty good idea what it means to be a professional, and it doesn't include engaging in deliberately ignorant behavior to ones coworkers. As a professional entertainer, the only person Andy Kaufman was interested in entertaining was himself.
Don't get me wrong - he cold still do this if he liked. As long as he could find promoters that would book his so-called act then he could engage in his asshole behavior. And I'm allowed to call it exactly that.
What is it about being considerate or inconsiderate that makes anyone more or less of an artist? It appears to be entirely irrelevant to the issue.
As for professional courtesy, that's a matter of ethics. If it is actually a matter of professionalism, it's in how it impacts on your ability to continue to perform within your profession.
So you think he's wasn't an asshole? What's your stand? Everytime we get into one of these discussions it seems like you just want to yell "white" whenever I say "black". Do you honestly disagree with the assertion that his performances are asshole-ish or do you simply like disagreeing for it's own sake?
I just want to know how much effort I should be putting into this.
What I'm not getting is why you think it's an either/or situation. Can reprehensible behaviour make you a better artist? Possibly. Does it make you a better human being? I don't happen to think so, no, but not everyone agrees.
Ok, it took me awhile to figure out just what was so annoying about this discussion. It's the fact that I said "A" and you've responded with "Why do you think B". Basically you've put me in the position of defending something that I didn't say. Also you never assert a position yourself, which drives me up the wall.
Artist and asshole are not mutually exclusive positions. Hell, one could make a case that the latter is a prerequisite for the former. AK was an asshole. That he was also an artist is open to opinion - if he was, then he certainly didn't have any respect for any audience except himself.
I will stand by my assertion that he was not being a professional - his "interactions" with Judd Hirsch and the producers of "Taxi" make that clear enough.
Artist and asshole are not mutually exclusive positions.
Agreed. If you reread your initial statement, however, you do suggest that they are. I've spent the last few days trying to determine if that's what you meant. I'm sorry for causing you frustration, but I did stick to the same point of inquiry throughout our discussion, rewording it each time in an effort to make it clearer.
I will stand by my assertion that he was not being a professional - his "interactions" with Judd Hirsch and the producers of "Taxi" make that clear enough.
In the sense that he behaviour was unbefitting for one in the acting profession, you mean? Yes, after a few days of considering the issue, I'm forced to agree. It's not a matter of whether or not people would tolerate it from him (it's obvious that not everyone did), but whether it would be behaviour that would interfere with the average individual's ability to perform within their profession.
Having said that, I have some reservations about how the Judd Hirsch fight is reported here. Still, that's a different issue.
Is it avant garde if no one really knows about it at the time?
I would counter that this man's goal was not to perform for the enjoyment of others, but more for the enjoyment of himself. While most performers may have a 50/50 split, his seems to have been weighted heavily on the personal side at the expense of others.
Personally, after this link and straight dope piece, I would have to consider this to be one man's personal expression of a practical joke, but taken to extreme extremes. The only thing is only a few people ever had the opportunity to 'get' the punchline.
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momijizukamori
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no subject
Date: 2007-01-30 04:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-30 06:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-30 06:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-30 01:40 pm (UTC)We have a pretty good idea what it means to be a professional, and it doesn't include engaging in deliberately ignorant behavior to ones coworkers. As a professional entertainer, the only person Andy Kaufman was interested in entertaining was himself.
Don't get me wrong - he cold still do this if he liked. As long as he could find promoters that would book his so-called act then he could engage in his asshole behavior. And I'm allowed to call it exactly that.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-30 07:13 pm (UTC)As for professional courtesy, that's a matter of ethics. If it is actually a matter of professionalism, it's in how it impacts on your ability to continue to perform within your profession.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-30 08:06 pm (UTC)I just want to know how much effort I should be putting into this.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-01 01:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-01 03:00 am (UTC)Artist and asshole are not mutually exclusive positions. Hell, one could make a case that the latter is a prerequisite for the former. AK was an asshole. That he was also an artist is open to opinion - if he was, then he certainly didn't have any respect for any audience except himself.
I will stand by my assertion that he was not being a professional - his "interactions" with Judd Hirsch and the producers of "Taxi" make that clear enough.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-01 06:13 pm (UTC)Agreed. If you reread your initial statement, however, you do suggest that they are. I've spent the last few days trying to determine if that's what you meant. I'm sorry for causing you frustration, but I did stick to the same point of inquiry throughout our discussion, rewording it each time in an effort to make it clearer.
I will stand by my assertion that he was not being a professional - his "interactions" with Judd Hirsch and the producers of "Taxi" make that clear enough.
In the sense that he behaviour was unbefitting for one in the acting profession, you mean? Yes, after a few days of considering the issue, I'm forced to agree. It's not a matter of whether or not people would tolerate it from him (it's obvious that not everyone did), but whether it would be behaviour that would interfere with the average individual's ability to perform within their profession.
Having said that, I have some reservations about how the Judd Hirsch fight is reported here. Still, that's a different issue.
well
Date: 2007-01-30 05:42 pm (UTC)I would counter that this man's goal was not to perform for the enjoyment of others, but more for the enjoyment of himself. While most performers may have a 50/50 split, his seems to have been weighted heavily on the personal side at the expense of others.
Personally, after this link and straight dope piece, I would have to consider this to be one man's personal expression of a practical joke, but taken to extreme extremes. The only thing is only a few people ever had the opportunity to 'get' the punchline.