The Problem Children
Jun. 4th, 2018 09:01 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jamesqSo there's two guys I know in the SCA. I don't like them. One is a self-aggrandizing libertarian social climber. The other is just a loud, callous jerk.
Fine. Not everyone needs to get along. I can just avoid them. Neither has really done anything to me personally, but they're not the sort of people I enjoy hanging around with; nor am I the sort to turn a blind eye when people are mistreated, even if I'm not the target of that mistreatment.
I've heard through the rumour mill that a lot of people have complained about them. And since nothing about their behaviour has changed, the assumption is that leadership won't do anything about them. This got me to thinking as to why. I think it boils down to there being no rule against people being jerks. If they're not breaking rules, and they're not bullying anyone, there's nothing that the leadership can do. Oh, I'm sure they've been spoken to, but both are firmly in the if-it-ain't-illegal-it's-OK camp. They're also both firmly in the fuck-your-feelings camp, so appealing to their empathy is a non-starter.
Aside, when discussing this topic with folks, I did mention that "I haven't seen him actually do anything wrong, just borish", which got two responses:
"You mean aside from blatant misogyny?"*
"There is a type of person who will deliberately push negative behaviour to just short of being called on it. I think it's pretty clear he's one of them."
I do know that it's basically stripped the fun out of archery for me. Oh, I still like shooting, but I've more-or-less decided that a 45 Km round trip to the range is not worth it if I'm going to also be hanging out with toxic people. And from what I've heard, most of the people I liked at practice have come to the same conclusion. That really sucks since Montengarde's archery community used to be the envy of the Kingdom.
People have quit archery. They've also flat-out quit the Society. And I'm talking people who were involved enough to become officers and champions. I've also heard rumours of their behaviour (again, no specific thing, just general, sustained boorishness) risking our relationship with local businesses.
I'm not sure there's a solution. As the victim of ostracization, I'm reluctant to suggest it, lest it get used on me. It probably wouldn't happen anyway, as they're both very good at being friends with those who have power and social capital. In general, they're only jerks to people who can't really hit back. And that makes it somehow worse - a person who's an asshole indiscriminately is just an asshole, possibly one who doesn't know any better. A person who can pick and choose their targets that consistently suggests that they know what they're doing is wrong, but only view right-and-wrong as a hinderance.
Anyway, they're not the only reason I left, but they were a factor.
*I haven't observed this personally, but a lot of misogynists hide that aspect of themselves from men that they know wouldn't approve. And it's been a long time since I've spent time with either of them.
Fine. Not everyone needs to get along. I can just avoid them. Neither has really done anything to me personally, but they're not the sort of people I enjoy hanging around with; nor am I the sort to turn a blind eye when people are mistreated, even if I'm not the target of that mistreatment.
I've heard through the rumour mill that a lot of people have complained about them. And since nothing about their behaviour has changed, the assumption is that leadership won't do anything about them. This got me to thinking as to why. I think it boils down to there being no rule against people being jerks. If they're not breaking rules, and they're not bullying anyone, there's nothing that the leadership can do. Oh, I'm sure they've been spoken to, but both are firmly in the if-it-ain't-illegal-it's-OK camp. They're also both firmly in the fuck-your-feelings camp, so appealing to their empathy is a non-starter.
Aside, when discussing this topic with folks, I did mention that "I haven't seen him actually do anything wrong, just borish", which got two responses:
"You mean aside from blatant misogyny?"*
"There is a type of person who will deliberately push negative behaviour to just short of being called on it. I think it's pretty clear he's one of them."
I do know that it's basically stripped the fun out of archery for me. Oh, I still like shooting, but I've more-or-less decided that a 45 Km round trip to the range is not worth it if I'm going to also be hanging out with toxic people. And from what I've heard, most of the people I liked at practice have come to the same conclusion. That really sucks since Montengarde's archery community used to be the envy of the Kingdom.
People have quit archery. They've also flat-out quit the Society. And I'm talking people who were involved enough to become officers and champions. I've also heard rumours of their behaviour (again, no specific thing, just general, sustained boorishness) risking our relationship with local businesses.
I'm not sure there's a solution. As the victim of ostracization, I'm reluctant to suggest it, lest it get used on me. It probably wouldn't happen anyway, as they're both very good at being friends with those who have power and social capital. In general, they're only jerks to people who can't really hit back. And that makes it somehow worse - a person who's an asshole indiscriminately is just an asshole, possibly one who doesn't know any better. A person who can pick and choose their targets that consistently suggests that they know what they're doing is wrong, but only view right-and-wrong as a hinderance.
Anyway, they're not the only reason I left, but they were a factor.
*I haven't observed this personally, but a lot of misogynists hide that aspect of themselves from men that they know wouldn't approve. And it's been a long time since I've spent time with either of them.
